Mouse and Pointing-Device News

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Path: cs.utk.edu!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!news.suba.com!news
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pc-clone.gateway2000,alt.sys.pc-clone.micron,
            comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.setup,
Organization: Suba Communications
Message-ID: <30B0E8A9.1F09@suba.com>
References: <47i325$ohs@pith.uoregon.edu> <47it5f$8hf@nuhou.aloha.net>
            <30A0C670.7258@micron.net> <47r9hk$nhg@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
            <DI8xGu.15I@midway.uchicago.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.87.202.159
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b2 (Windows; I; 32bit)
To: tc26@midway.uchicago.edu
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 14:44:25 -0600
From: Russ <smashing@suba.com>
Subject: Re: mouse stuff from WFW3.11 needed in upgrading to win95

Tim Clark wrote:
> 
> In article <47r9hk$nhg@ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
> Tom Miller  <jeba@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >In <30A0C670.7258@micron.net> Tor Osthed <tor@micron.net> writes:
> >>
> >>Why would Microsoft not put the driver on their server for download?
> >> Perhaps they have, any sightings?
> >>                                   Tor Osthed
> >
> >I have not seen the original post, but if you are referring to the
> >"Intellipoint" mouse software, MS is selling it, not giving it away.
> 
> Anyone got any info on the "Intellipoint" software.  How good is it?
> Is it bug free?  Work well in MS-Dos & Windows 3.11.  How much memory,
> upper and conventional does it take up compared to the last MS mouse
> driver (I think mine is 9).  I'm always trying to save more memory :-)


First things first:  If you are an MS Mouse user they will give you the 
Intellipoint upgrade.  How do I know?  I called them and now I have it.

Second:  It's not posted because they only want to give it to customers who 
actually bought the product it's packaged with.  Intellipoint is what comes 
with the MS Mouse; I have yet to see it offered as a standalone product.

As far as good, bug free, etc., it is buggy.  It's cute, you get animated 
cursors and some nice control over the mouse.  But if you're using version 9.x 
of the Mouse drivers then you have most of the control already, the only thing 
Intellipoint will give you is some flashy stuff for cursors, sounds, etc.  
Unless you have specific needs, I say proceed with caution.

I don't know about memory requirements under DOS/Win3.x.  I'm on Win95.  That 
brings up another point-- the bugs may be Win95 specific.  Intellipoint 1.1
and Quicken, BTW, bash heads like the dickens under Win95.

Good luck!
-- 
----------------------------------------
Russ aka smashing@suba.com
   Visit the web page at
       http://www.suba.com/~smashing/
           and tell your friends! <G>
----------------------------------------

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

From Info-IBM-PC Digest
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1992 15:55:01 +0200
From: KARGRA@GBA930.ZAMG.AC.AT
Subject: Logitech driver

Hello David,
here are the parameters of the mousedriver:

mouse init resets the driver to default values
mouse (#) where # can be 1 or 2 for the com-port
mouse bhigh/blow/bon/boff sets the ballistic effect
mouse 1200/2400/4800/9600 specifies the baudrate
mouse 10/50/150 specifies the transfer rate from the mousedriver to
         the program
mouse 2k/3k sets the driver for a 2key or a 3key-mouse
mouse 5B:/MM:/RE: is the type of mouse you use (i.e. MM: means
         mousesystems)
mouse s01...s09 sets the mousespeed
mouse ? shows actual parameters
mouse pc sets the driver to a msc technologies mouse
mouse out deinstalls the driver

you can give all parameters at once in the following order:
mouse com-port ballistics baudrate transfer_rate nr_of_keys type_of_mouse

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


> Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:34:43 +0000
> From: Anton Jackson <anton@antonj.demon.co.uk>
> Newsgroups: comp.periphs, comp.periphs.printers,
>     alt.comp.periphs.multifunctions
> Subject: Pointer Systems, Montpelier, Vermont, USA
>
>
> I have been given Pointer Systems as a supplier of head-set operated
> computer mouse.  This will be useful for disabled computer buffs and this
> is my interest.  Can anyone please supply full address or telephone no.?
>
> Anton

    Pointer Systems, Inc.
    216 Battery St.
    Burlington, VT 05401-5214

    Phone:  +1 802/658-3260

    Montpelier is the capital municipality of Vermont, but Burlington
    is a much larger city, with a significant high-tech industry base.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Path: utkcs2!stc06.ctd.ornl.gov!news.he.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!europa.clark.net
      !205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!infeed2.internetmci.com
      !newsfeed.internetmci.com!tezcat!not-for-mail
Organization: Argecy Computer Corporation
Message-ID: <5rnk8r$5fn$1@tepe.tezcat.com>
References: <869843415.23798@dejanews.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: loren.tezcat.com
To: kevin@cdsinc.net
Date: 30 Jul 1997 14:48:59 GMT
From: loren <loren@argecy.com>
Subject: Re: touch screen terminal

> Does anybody know if there is a such thing as a touch-screen terminal?
> I've been hunting for one for some time now with no results.
>
> It could be just a simple monochrome terminal, but I need a touch screen.
> If anybody could help me out, please e-mail me at kevin@cdsinc.net.  I
> would greatly appreciate it!
>

It is not the same thing,  but IBM made a terminal that works with a light
pen; the 3192-L10.  It is for use in the mainframe, EBCDIC, 3270 environment.

There are several makers of touchscreen *monitors* in the PC market.  I
guess that you could use this as solution--in conjunction with a PC running
terminal-emulation software.

Good Luck
-- 
                     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
| Loren Williams    *            Argecy Computer Corporation            *
| tel 773-871-8590  * ----- New, Surplus, & Refurbished hardware -----  *
| fax 773-871-8596  * - IBM - Lexmark - Okidata - Epson - DCA - 3Com -  *
| loren@tezcat.com  *         WWW site : http://www.argecy.com          *
                     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Message-ID: <799lut$9sm$1@us1.rhbnc.ac.uk>
References: <78t8hc$jgj$1@news1.tc.umn.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:20:47 -0000
From: Kevin Sheehan <kevin.sheehan@rhbnc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Can I use a PS2 mouse?


Alan Kilian (CBC) wrote in message <78t8hc$jgj$1@news1.tc.umn.edu>...
>I have a Sun Ultra 10 workstation with the typical Sun keyboard/mouse.
>
>I would like to use a Logitech Trackman Marble trackball. It comes in
>either PS2 or Serial versions.
>
>I looked at the Sun mouse which is made by Logitech, and it only uses
>three wires: +5 Volts DC, Ground and Mousedata_out.
>
>The PS2 mice have four wires: +5 Volts DC, Ground, Mousedata_out and
>Clock.

Usually the data line is bi-directional (it is open collector and the side
driving the clock has control of the data line)


>Sun makes an interface box #X465A for $75.00 that can convert PS2
>peripherals to the Sun standard, but they are out of stock.
>
>     [part number 370-2068-01, Sun interface converter]
>
>Does anyone in this group understand the differences between the PS2
>and Sun mice? Is is a different protocol, or just different transmission
>mechanism?


Well, I know a bit about PS2, but not the Sun protocol.

>
>Could I take a PS2 mouse and leave the clock unconnected?

The mouse generates the clock when sending data so transmission would be
o.k. but usually the computer would drive the clock inorder to initialise
the mouse and to indicate when not to send.


>Could I take a PS2 mouse and generate a continuous clock?

This as far as I know would just confuse the mouse and be interpreted as
clear to transmit-not clear to transmit-clear to transmit-not clear to
transmit......


>Can I get the interface box somewhere else?
That I dont know, but a pic microcontroller is easily capable of talking the
PS2 protocol but as I say I dont know about the Sun one.

>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>

Sorry I couldnt be more help but good luck.
>           -Alan Kilian   kilian@med.umn.edu
>
    Kevin Sheehan


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Message-ID: <7e2uk2$h6c$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
References: <7e1gp8$76r$1@unix.sri.com>
    <xSXM2.22058$573.8079@news.rdc1.md.home.com>
Organization: National Research Council Canada
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.solaris,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc
Date: 2 Apr 1999 17:26:26 GMT
From: Walter Roberson <roberson@ibd.nrc.ca>
Subject: Re: Windows driver for SGI mouse?

In article <xSXM2.22058$573.8079@news.rdc1.md.home.com>,
 <peter@ps.baltimore.md.us> wrote:
:There are two types of SGI mice and they both look identical.  The
:mice for the older machines (more or less prior to the introduction of
:the Indy) were SGI specific and cannot be used on anything else.

To quibble a little:

The older SGI mouse were pure serial mice working at RS423 levels.
The specs for them are given in the mouse(7) man page. They could in
theory be plugged in to any RS423 compatible serial port and used
with an appropriate driver. Probably the logic for any "serial mouse"
could be relatively easily adapted for this purpose.

That is, there wasn't anything about those mice that constrained them
for use on SGI systems.


The PC keyboard and PC mouse used on the newer SGI systems uses a
different serial protocol that shares a single Data line between the
host and the device. The end that is holding the Clock pin low is the
end that is transmitting. The Clock pin doesn't seem to have any
timing-related functions. The interface is not RS232 or RS423 compatible,
so you end up pretty much locked into buying (or building) a chip
specifically to handle these devices, instead of being able to use
any handy serial port like you could with the older mice and keyboards.
And that also means that for the newer keyboard and mouse you cannot
use the well-understood termios ioctl()/tc[sg]etattr() coding: you
have to learn a different device control interface just for this purpose.


You can probably deduce which of the two generations I believe to be the
better design ;-)


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sgi.misc,comp.unix.solaris,comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc
Organization: Speech Technology and Research Laboratory, SRI International, Menlo Park, CA
Message-ID: <7e64sa$j1e$1@unix.sri.com>
References: <7e1gp8$76r$1@unix.sri.com>
    <xSXM2.22058$573.8079@news.rdc1.md.home.com> <3704B942.234A195D@vplate.com>
Date: 3 Apr 1999 22:31:38 GMT
From: Andreas Stolcke <stolcke@speech.sri.com>
Subject: Re: Windows driver for SGI mouse?

In article <3704B942.234A195D@vplate.com>,
Homme R. Bitter <h.bitter@vplate.com> wrote:
>peter@ps.baltimore.md.us wrote:
>>
>> According to Andreas Stolcke <stolcke@speech.sri.com>:
>>
>> > Has anyone figured out what driver works to use a 3-button SGI mouse
>> > (as distibuted with iris processor machines) with Windows 95?
>>
>> There are two types of SGI mice and they both look identical.  The
>> mice for the older machines (more or less prior to the introduction of
>> the Indy) were SGI specific and cannot be used on anything else.
>>
>> All newer mice are standard-issue PS/2 variety and the standard
>> windows/ps2 driver will work just fine.  I'm pretty sure that the
>> middle mouse button will work automagically -- at least it does for
>> the generic ps/2 three-button mouse I have on one of my PCs.
>>
>> > Please reply in email, I'll summarize.
>>
>> Posted to the net and CC'ed to the author.  No need for any further
>> action.
>
>
>
> It is a OEM Logitech busmouse, you need to set the driver to (3 button)
> Logitech mouse and you are up and running.


Thanks to all respondents.
This last posting was the winning entry !

To summarize (and this is strictly my experience).

The standard PS/2 mouse driver does NOT work.

Here is how I got things to work with a Logitech driver:

1 - go to http://www.logitech.com/us/support/mousefiles.html and
   download the M83SETUP.EXE package.

2 - run it, it installs a bunch of drivers for Logtech mice.
  after reboot, make sure you have "PS/2" as your mouse driver in
   the Mouse Control Panel

3 - unfortunately, they don't give you the configuration software for free.
  the default configuration is to make the middle button behave like
  a double-left click.  this is NOT what i wanted.  to enable the middle
  button,

  - run "regedit"
  - go to

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Logitech\MouseWare\CurrentVersion\Setup\PS2\0000
  - change the entries
        "NumberOfButton"        to "3"
        "DoubleClick"           to "0000"

4 - reboot

I should say this is on Windows 95.  In NT, things work up to step 2,
but there are no reg entries (that i could find) that allow you to
get rid of the double-click behavior.

--
Andreas Stolcke                                 stolcke@speech.sri.com
Speech Technology and Research Laboratory       Phone (650) 859-2544
SRI International, Menlo Park, CA 94025, USA    Fax (650) 859-5984


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Sender: uqjhatto@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.9908300002370.15573-100000@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au>
Organization: University of Queensland
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:20:04 +1000
From: Joel Hatton <uqjhatto@mailbox.uq.edu.au>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: getting your serial mouse to work on all 3 buttons

If you have a cheapy 3 button serial mouse with an inoperative middle
button under X, there is a cheap and easy way to make it work properly, so
long as you aren't afraid of a soldering iron. To be sure it's not likely
to have any undesirable effects, run xev and prove that the middle key is
completely ignored like mine was.

All you have to do is grab 2* .5 amp diodes (little ones, anyway) and
connect the output of the middle microswitch to the outputs of both left
and right buttons so that pressing the middle button will do the
equivalent of pressing both buttons simultaneously (naturally you have to
have the option 'emulate 3 buttons' turned on). All three switches will
have one pin in common, which is + supply, one non-common output pin and
one dangler.

It's a bit hard to draw a diagram, but just make sure you have the anodes
of the diodes attached to the non-common pin on the middle switch and the
cathodes one to each non-common pin of the other two switches. Make sure
you don't accidentally short any tracks with the diode leads. You could
set the emulation timeout super low now to prevent accidentally clicking 1
& 3 like you used to and run xev if it doesn't seem to be working - you
should get a 'button 2' report when pressing it just like when you were
pressing 1&3 together.

so now you can use that $5 mouse instead of coughing up for the $30-50
logitech.... (I've still got one of those on my best machine, though, they
really are great!)

NB: no responsibility accepted for damaged hardware when you screw it up
or if it doesn't work in your situation... ;)

joel
-- HelpDesk, ITS, Uni of Qld, Australia - phone [+61] [07] 33654400|
|opinions expressed herein are mine alone and may not be forwarded!|
|plaintext/ascii messages only, all unsolicited attachments deleted|
|to send me a file/document see http://www.uq.edu.au/~uqjhatto/#ftp|

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Organization: Cornell University
Message-ID: <fh10-3008990103510001@node48.psych.cornell.edu>
References: <MPG.1231e2aa4b4b461c989680@news.wish.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:03:51 -0400
From: Fred Horan <fh10@cornell.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Mouse is not working properly with XBF_i740 Server

Hi There,

I had problems with that also.  I suspect that xf86config does not figure
out the MS-Intellimouse information correctly.  I had to look at my old
pre-xf86configed XF86Config file.

Look at /etc/X11/xf86config file.  About half way into that file, you will
want the following text:

Section "Pointer"    <- THIS IS THE TEXT TO LOOK FOR

   protocol "IMPS/2"
   device   "/dev/mouse" <- THIS WILL MOST LIKELY NOT CHANGE
   ZAxisMapping 4 5
Hope this helps.

   Fred

In article <MPG.1231e2aa4b4b461c989680@news.wish.net>, nam_cap@hotmail.com
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm using RedHat 6.0 and X-Windows 3.3.3 With the XBF_i740 Server.
>
> The driver itself for my videocard works properly... but when i touch my
> mouse it just jumps to the upperleft corner of the screen and stays
> there... I can only ctrl-alt-b.space out of X...
>
> I have a MS-Intelli mouse..
>
> My mouse works fine in the console-mode. (gpm)
> And when I had a s3 Virge card it worked properly too...

>
> Any suggestions???
>
> Thanks.

--
Fred Horan
Ithaca NY
fh10@cornell.edu


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: alt.solaris.x86
Organization: BigPond Internet Services
Message-ID: <3ADC73CD.840503CC@dummy.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:47:44 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.45.88.15
From: Andrei Tchepurnyh <dummy@dummy.com>
Subject: Any chances to run Wheel Mouse

Hi. I have Logitech wheel mouse and just wondering if it is possible
to use that wheel to scroll under solaris 8 - x86?
 Thanks in advance

 Andrei.-- 


 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: alt.solaris.x86
Message-ID: <9blt5l$i7n$2@agate.berkeley.edu>
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: Any chances to run Wheel Mouse
Date: 19 Apr 2001 05:30:29 GMT

"Daniel Chee" <danchee@speakeasy.net> writes in alt.solaris.x86:
|What about in Xsun?

Xsun doesn't support mouse wheels.

					 [but see later Solaris 9 enhancements]

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith                              alanc@alum.calberkeley.org
http://soar.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/           aka: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


References: <3ADC73CD.840503CC@dummy.com> <tdpqr86a5gtqb3@corp.supernews.com>
    <tdsdt0p4ll9c13@corp.supernews.com>
Newsgroups: alt.solaris.x86
Message-ID: <tdskj09t9kq886@corp.supernews.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:50:06 -0500
From: Dave Uhring <duhring@charter.net>
Subject: Re: Any chances to run Wheel Mouse

From an article I posted earlier (13 April)

> Here is the appropriate section from my XF86Config:
> 
> Section "InputDevice"
>         Identifier  "Mouse0"
>         Driver      "mouse"
>         Option      "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
>         Option      "Device" "/dev/kdmouse"
>         Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
> EndSection
> 
> Note that I do use a M$ IntelliMouse.

Read the man page for XF86Config to get the proper protocol.

My wheel mouse works just about perfectly in KDE-2.1.1 and Mozilla.  I have 
also built the utility imwheel to use the scroll wheel in other apps, 
notably Netscape.

I have not seen the option in kdmconfig for a wheel mouse of any brand.  
There may be some way to use that scroll wheel in XSun, but I doubt it.  If 
you do find a way, let me know too.  The only reason I installed XFree86 
was to get the ability to use the scroll wheel.

-- 
 Dave Uhring


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


References: <3AE3033A.97550E18@pcde.inka.de>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 03:59:17 GMT
Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net
Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware
Message-ID: <0fu9et4lrp0fgf20003p18roj4e1mi0eit@4ax.com>
From: Mike N <twmaster.spamnot@twmaster.com>
Subject: Re: mouspads for optical mice

You can use the type 4 mouse with type 5 pads. not type 5 mouse with
type 4.

Mike N

On Sun, 22 Apr 2001 18:13:46 +0200, Dennis Grevenstein
<dennis@pcde.inka.de> wrote:

>Hi NG,
>
>I tried to use a typ 5 optical mouse with a mouspad that came
>with a typ 4 optical mouse. The strange effect is that the
>mouse pointer can only be moved in one direction eg. up - down
>or left - right if you turn the mouse pad.
>It's a silver mouspad with "NDX 403104-001" printed on the back.
>Do typ 4 mice use different mousepads than typ 5 mice or is my
>mouse broken?

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Date: 15 Nov 2001 20:51:03 GMT
Organization: Penn State University, Center for Academic Computing
Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
Message-ID: <9t19rn$1v56@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>
References: <9sv84m$f99$1@news.panix.com> <3BF33F5B.6ECE476E@sbcglobal.net>
    <9svp6u$jqt$1@news.panix.com>
From: james@foonly.com
Subject: Re: now i hate my sunblade.

tucansam@whodis.org wrote:
>
> i would rather endure endless torture than use the sunblade 100's 
> keyboard, but i have to say the mouse positively rocks.
> i've never had a sun whose mouse was so... responsive?  hard to put
> into words.  it's amazing and makes my ultra60 seem like its mouse is
> being sampled once per  second.  it just seems fast, responsive, fluid.  

If you're using a Sun type-5 mechanical or optomechanical mouse, it's possible
to upgrade it fairly easily from 1200bps to 4800bps.  This dramatically
decreases movement latency and works "out of the box" with Solaris 2.3 and
above:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=4800bps+lockwood+jumpy&hl=en&rnum=1&selm=2hex4.30%24534.1629%40news.pacbell.net

(or folded)

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=4800bps+lockwood
    +jumpy&hl=en&rnum=1&selm=2hex4.30%24534.1629%40news.pacbell.net

This is a guide I wrote in '99, it's fairly descriptive.

-James


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Message-ID: <upeitdt9970k7c@corp.supernews.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:55:07 -0700
From: CK <toen0013@n0sp4m.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer Wheel in KDE/X

Has anyone been able to get the scroller wheel on the Microsoft Intellimouse 
Explorer to work in KDE/X?  I've gotten so used to using it in Win2k/XP  
and i'm lost now without it.  Is there a special binding for it or do I 
need a new driver?  I believe i'm using the most updated version of 4.6 and 
selected Intellimouse during X installation.  Thanks for any help! 

-Steve


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
References: <upeitdt9970k7c@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <7nIl9.20602$Cz.2687002@twister.neo.rr.com>
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online -- Northeast Ohio
Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 19:19:31 GMT
From: Andy <andy@nothanks.com>
Subject: Re: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer Wheel in KDE/X


Check the FAQ - 11.4. My mouse has a fancy wheel. Can I use it in X? 

    http://www.FreeBSD.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/x.html#X-AND-WHEEL

..works very well for me. Hard to describe the helpless feeling when using a 
mouse without a wheel :)


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
References: <upeitdt9970k7c@corp.supernews.com>
    <7nIl9.20602$Cz.2687002@twister.neo.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Qg0m9.192966$pX1.6883637@news2.tin.it>
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:58:08 GMT
From: Dr. Bruno Campanini <bruno.campanini@tin.it>
Subject: Re: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer Wheel in KDE/X

I've arranged my XF86Config (as per example 11-5 in the above document) as 
follows:

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier      "Mouse0"
        Driver          "mouse"
        Option          "Protocol" "MouseSystems"
        Option          "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
        Option          "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

I've installed imwheel with no change in ..../imwheelrc and when I run KDE 
moving the wheel doesn't produce any action.
Any suggestion?

PS - With this BSD del cazzo I never got any examples running with me.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
References: <upeitdt9970k7c@corp.supernews.com>
    <7nIl9.20602$Cz.2687002@twister.neo.rr.com>
    <Qg0m9.192966$pX1.6883637@news2.tin.it>
Message-ID: <3D998502.FE085D6C@MYFIRSTNAMEMYLASTNAME.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:20:34 +0000
From: Dave Pimlott <nospam@MYFIRSTNAMEMYLASTNAME.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer Wheel in KDE/X

"Dr. Bruno Campanini" wrote:
 
> I've arranged my XF86Config (as per example 11-5 in the above document) as
> follows:
> Section "InputDevice"
>         Identifier      "Mouse0"
>         Driver          "mouse"
>         Option          "Protocol" "MouseSystems"
>         Option          "Device" "/dev/sysmouse"
>         Option          "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
> EndSection


You need to tell the X server that you have 5 buttons first... use this
fragment:

        Option          "Buttons" "5"
        Option          "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"


Dave Pimlott.
to reply direct, change MYFIRSTNAME MYLASTNAME
-- 
Politicians should be changed frequently, like nappies--and for
much the same reason. -- Unknown.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


References: <bnkq62$5o1$1@news1nwk.SFbay>
Message-ID: <3F9E112F.6070807@.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:48:15 -0800
To: Erik V.
From: Gordon P.
Subject: Re: mouse speed (on a Macintosh)

Erik V. wrote:
>
> I have the mouse speed set to the max...but it is still too slow.
> I have to continually pick up the mouse to make long movements across 
> the screen.  Any way to make it even faster?
>
> Thanks,
> Erik
>
> PB 15"


What kind of mouse are you using?

Awhile back I bought a Macally "Ice Mouse Jr." and tried to use the
Mac OS X (10.2.6) system preferences to set the mouse speed, and it
still seemed slow.  However when I downloaded and  installed the
specific Macally drivers and used the Macally software  interface
to the set the mouse speed, it sped up quite significantly. 

Not sure what brand of mouse you are using but you might want to try 
using the specific software that comes with the mouse. Also, check
the vendor's website because a vendor generally offers newer drivers
than what gets shipped with the actual mouse on a CD.

Hope this helps.

Gordon

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:12:33 +0100
To: Nathan M.
From: Craig M.
Subject: Re: wireless mice

I'm using a Kensington PocketMouse Pro wireless on an Apple G4 Powerbook
and I am delighted with its operation ...

The USB receiver is adjustable for better reception (through 270 degrees)
and range is easily 20 to 30 feet (i.e., I can use it for clicking through
presentations as well).

Not a complaint, but the only slight issue I have observed is that it has
a battery-saving 'sleep' which kicks in after a few minutes inactivity;
this obviously is worthwile but you get a fraction of a second or so of
wakeup delay when you reactivate.

The remainder of the operation is flawless, including optical tracking 
and 3-button operation with accurate scrolling.

I previously used a wired version on a Windows laptop and was impressed,
but this is considerably better again ...

Craig

 ..............................................................................

Message-ID: <FB83313F-BDDF-11D7-BC07-000393C7A454>
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 08:06:12 -0600
To: Tom F.
From: Nathan M.
Subject: Re: Same results with Kensington Mouse

I grabbed this from the faq's on kensington.com.  They say the 
batteries should last three months!

1) Mouse - The mouse communicates to the receiver at a frequency of 27 MHz.
   It operates on standard 1.5V AAA battery cells. Batteries should last
   3 months under average conditions.

2) Receiver - Twist the receiver up to 270 degrees (3/4 of a complete 
   turn) to make sure that it is receiving the clearest signal possible. 
   Note: Do not try to twist the receiver past the maximum point.


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 [discussion from early mouse days]

 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Path: cs.utk.edu!nntp.memphis.edu!nntp.msstate.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu
      !sdd.hp.com!hplabs!unix.sri.com!news.Stanford.EDU!microunity!toms
Newsgroups: comp.sys.hp.hardware,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: HP Keyboard/Mouse
Message-ID: <DH33Iy.KH4@microunity.com>
From: toms@MicroUnity.com (Tom Sanders)
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 01:44:58 GMT
Sender: usenet@microunity.com (news id)
References: <308FF061.5220@mbari.org>
Organization: MicroUnity Systems Engineering, Inc.
Lines: 12


In article <308FF061.5220@mbari.org>, wm paul rogers <wcpr@mbari.org> writes:
|> i've got an HP Keyboard and 3-Button Mouse with large phone-style jacks,
|> RJ-??(whatever).  the mouse plugs into the keyboard, which has a single
|> plug to connect to wherever.  any way i can use this keyboard/mouse
|> combo on a intel-endevour motherboard computer i'm building to run under
|> linux?  and if so, what card(?) would i need?
|> 
|> -wcpr-

I think you're out of luck.  The keyboard/mouse you describe uses an HP-HIL
interface, which I believe is exclusive to HP workstations.

Tom Sanders

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroup: net.micro.apple
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Denver Mods 4/2/84) 6/24/83; site drutx.UUCP
From: bees@drutx.UUCP
Message-ID: <374@drutx.UUCP>
ReSent-date: Wed 2 May 84 12:23:27-PDT
ReSent-From: Ed Pattermann <PATTERMANN@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA>
ReSent-To: Info-Mac mailing list <info-mac>
Received: from OFFICE-2.ARPA by SUMEX-AIM.ARPA with TCP; Wed 2 May 84 11:03:44-PDT
X-Message-ID: <[OFFICE-2.ARPA]TYM-DAP-4L77T>
Cc: MARKET.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA, DCE.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA
Cc: DEV.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA
To: info-mac@SUMEX-AIM.ARPA
Date:  2 May 1984 11:01 PDT
From: David Potter, Softmark/McDonnell Douglas  <DAP.TYM@OFFICE-2.ARPA>
Comment: An answer to Bill Coderre....
Subject: Mice for the Ambidextrous

If Bill Coderre wants something for his left hand to do while his right hand is 
busy with the mouse (a most understandable wish), he might be interested in 
taking a look at AUGMENT, the Tymshare product which evolved from Doug 
Engelbart's NLS, which was developed at SRI.  That's where the mouse itself was 
invented.  Its developers recognized the need for a control device usable by the
hand not busy with the mouse, and developed a five-key "keyset."  Looks sort of 
like a little piano keyboard, sitting (usually) to the left of the keyboard, 
with the mouse on the right.

We've been using the keyset, together with a three-button mouse, since the late 
60's (Doug Engelbart -- Engelbart@Office-2.ARPA) could give you a more precise 
date -- works beautifully, and does just exactly what Bill is asking for.  As a 
matter of fact, I'm using one now -- mouse and keyset hooked to a PC/XT -- to 
send this message.

It's nice to see people thinking along these lines.  They used to laugh when I 
sat down at the mouse & keyset.... "What's THAT?" they said....

Regards
-- 
David

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:39:57 -0700
Organization: Networks and Distributed Computing
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.55.0304091037420.6856@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <b6usrg$clk$1@xuxa.iecc.com> <3E93558E.6894EBEF@ev1.net>
    <b6vp38$nr7$1@xuxa.iecc.com> <b71gg7$k1g$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

On Wed, 9 Apr 2003, Peter da Silva wrote:
>
> The first really
> practical mice (with balls rather then two rubber wheels at 90 degrees to
> each other, which was the original mechanism) didn't show up until well
> into the seventies.

I don't remember ball-type mice until the 1980s, but I definitely remember
mice with two rubber wheels at 90 degrees in the late 1970s.

I forget if Altos had the ball mice or the wheels.  I think that they had
the wheels, and the switchover was with the Dolphin.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 13:10:28 -0700
Organization: Apple Computer, Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <aek-0904031310280001@il0502a-dhcp132.apple.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.55.0304091037420.6856@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>
    <b71ppt$e3t$1@spies.com> <aek-0904031308380001@il0502a-dhcp132.apple.com>
From: Al Kossow <aek@spies.com>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

In article <aek-0904031308380001@il0502a-dhcp132.apple.com>, aek@spies.com
(Al Kossow) wrote:

> In article <b71ppt$e3t$1@spies.com>, aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote:
> 
> > From article
> <Pine.LNX.4.55.0304091037420.6856@shiva0.cac.washington.edu>, by Mark
> Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU>:
> > > 
> > > I forget if Altos had the ball mice or the wheels.  I think that they had
> > > the wheels, and the switchover was with the Dolphin.
> > > 
> > 
> > The first metal ball mouse was the Haley mouse on the Alto, mid 70s. 
> > The same design was sold by him under the name "Mouse House".
> > Sun 1's used these as well.
> > 
> > Another bit of trivia is the  first Alto mice have horizontal 
> > switch keys instead of vertical.
> 
> 
> After a bit of digging, here's a nice picture of the "Hawley" mouse
> The Xerox case has more rounded corners.
> 
> 
> http://www.netclique.net/oldmouse/Hawley/mirror.html
> 
> creation date 1972
> 
> "After all, we invented our first digital mouse in 1972"

Xerox version here:

http://www.netclique.net/oldmouse//Xerox/Alto.html


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Date: 10 Apr 2003 13:06:29 GMT
Organization: TSS Inc.
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <b73q8l$2k1j$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <b6vp38$nr7$1@xuxa.iecc.com> <b71gg7$k1g$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
    <9t0a9v81v2v4podmq85qh03r3ibjlcfuc6@4ax.com>
From: Peter da Silva <peter@taronga.com>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

In article <9t0a9v81v2v4podmq85qh03r3ibjlcfuc6@4ax.com>,
Brian Inglis  <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca> wrote:
>On 9 Apr 2003 16:07:35 GMT in alt.folklore.computers,
>peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) wrote:
>>In article <b6vp38$nr7$1@xuxa.iecc.com>, John R. Levine <johnl@iecc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This example predates the invention of the mouse, of course.
>>>>IMHO it porbably predated the general use of the mouse...but
>>>>the mouse was invented circa 1968 and patented in 1970. So we
>>>>are talking about the same general time frame, right???

>>>My 338 manual is copyright 1967, and I believe that the 340 was
>>>earlier.  It definitely predates invention of the mouse, albeit not by
>>>much.  But even after the mouse was invented, it took about a decade
>>>for it to be more than a curiosity for user interface experimenters.

>>The PDP-1 (1960) had a light pen. Light pens were pretty common during the
>>sixties: they're much simpler to build and don't require calibration
>>because the display itself is part of the mechanism. The first really
>>practical mice (with balls rather then two rubber wheels at 90 degrees to
>>each other, which was the original mechanism) didn't show up until well
>>into the seventies.

>Didn't graphic systems have cursors (mouse like things with cross
>hair magnifiers) for digitizing plans, maps, etc. before that? 

Pucks and digitizing pads? I don't know when they came out, but they
were *expensive*, even by the standards of the day. Light pens could
be implemented in software, and what must have been about the first
home video game (Magnavox Oddysey) had a light pen/light gun.

Pantograph-style digitizing tablets are pretty old (1965), but they had
an arm directly connected to the cursor, or a mechanical "follower" arm
tracking it mechanically under the table. The modern digitizer that
uses a grid of EM sensors and a coil is definitely much later than the
light pen.

-- 
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.        29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <3E95BE41.8F39F3B8@yahoo.com>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <mddel4js73p.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
    <Pine.WNT.4.55.0304091916040.2832@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
    <ui0a9vciulrivca6lvvsop7afjse31t94e@4ax.com>
    <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
    <1825.230T1674T5474619@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Organization: Ched Research
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:03:16 GMT
From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> 
... snip about life ...
> 
> No, no, no.  You're not optimizing it properly. 

You can do better.  Find the largest rectangle that contains
*changed* cells, and repaint that.

       if (old ^ new) checkformaxmin();

-- 
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <b74n92$bk0$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <ui0a9vciulrivca6lvvsop7afjse31t94e@4ax.com>
    <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
    <1825.230T1674T5474619@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date: 10 Apr 2003 21:21:38 GMT
From: Peter da Silva <peter@taronga.com>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

In article <1825.230T1674T5474619@kltpzyxm.invalid>,
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>No, no, no.  You're not optimizing it properly.  

Yes, yes, and the next optimization is to find the smallest rectangle that
changed in the previous calculation, and then you subdivide into multiple
active zones...

The point is that on the vt100 you don't have to be very fast for your
update rate to be limited by the serial connection, if your generation
calculations are as well optimised as your update calculations.

-- 
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.        29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <mi1c9vsheprtl6jme56vg5bs4vd20i180i@4ax.com>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <mddel4js73p.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
    <Pine.WNT.4.55.0304091916040.2832@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
    <ui0a9vciulrivca6lvvsop7afjse31t94e@4ax.com>
    <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 01:27:37 +0100
From: David Powell <ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

In article <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>,  
 peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva)  in alt.folklore.computers wrote:

>
>You have to remember how slow 9600 bps is, and how slow the vt100 is.
>

Yup, VT100s are s-l-o-o-o-o-o-w.

>
>7 bit characters with no parity, 2 start and one stop bit is about
>the best case, and that's 960 cps with 80*24=1920 characters, the
>more common 7-bits-with-parity or 8-bits-with-no-parity were even
>slower. There's two seconds right there.
>

Make that four seconds, the VT100 can only display at 480 cps maximum.
Fast enough for glass tty mode, a pain if you use VT100.TEC.   :-(

>On top of which a "clear screen" operation on the vt100 could take
>quite a while to complete. The termcap entry for the vt100 has 50ms
>delay there (:cl=50\E[;H\H[2J:). Even with flow control, the vt100
>could get so busy there it'd lose characters, so a delay was essential
>just to accomodate it.

I don't understand that, but at the time when VT100s were in everyday
use, I didn't have an OS with a "termcap".  IIRC, ESC[2J should
complete in less than 8 ms, and there's about 45 ms after the Xoff  at
9600 before the buffer overflows.     

Regards,

David P.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <b76bqk$1p1v$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <ui0a9vciulrivca6lvvsop7afjse31t94e@4ax.com>
    <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
    <mi1c9vsheprtl6jme56vg5bs4vd20i180i@4ax.com>
Organization: TSS Inc.
Date: 11 Apr 2003 12:18:28 GMT
From: Peter da Silva <peter@taronga.com>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

In article <mi1c9vsheprtl6jme56vg5bs4vd20i180i@4ax.com>,
David Powell  <ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I don't understand that, but at the time when VT100s were in everyday
> use, I didn't have an OS with a "termcap".  IIRC, ESC[2J should
> complete in less than 8 ms, and there's about 45 ms after the Xoff  at
> 9600 before the buffer overflows.     

That assumes the buffer was empty, no?

50 ms may be overly conservative, but most of those figures were derived
from practical experience.

-- 
Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC.        29.6852N 95.5770W                       WWFD?

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <110420031526456776%elliott@yrl.co.uk>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <mddel4js73p.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
    <Pine.WNT.4.55.0304091916040.2832@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
    <ui0a9vciulrivca6lvvsop7afjse31t94e@4ax.com>
    <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
    <mi1c9vsheprtl6jme56vg5bs4vd20i180i@4ax.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 15:26:45 +0100
From: Elliott Roper <elliott@yrl.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

In article <mi1c9vsheprtl6jme56vg5bs4vd20i180i@4ax.com>, David Powell
<ddotpowell@icuknet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> Make that four seconds, the VT100 can only display at 480 cps maximum.
> Fast enough for glass tty mode, a pain if you use VT100.TEC.   :-(

Was there ever a VT100.TEC? I can recall VT52.TEC and VTEDIT.TEC. It
was wonderful on VT100's. Teco has a beautiful screen draw algorithm
that works out the shortest string involving scroll up down and direct
cursor addressing only when appropriate - all written round the VT100's
tricks. I still see it working its magic when ssh-ing from my Mac
laptop to a VMS box over mobile phone. (I'll admit that split screen
teco (3,7:w) mode is faster than VTEDIT in those circumstances, but it
uses the same screen redraw)
VTEDIT was far better than any other screen based editor on VT100 as
far as using a slow line went. I nicked the ideas in that code for many
a job.
On the other hand, all the other users on our VAX750 would come round
to lynch me if I dared use VTEDIT during daytime. Did it guzzle cpu!

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers, alt.sys.pdp10
Message-ID: <h5ef9v8rml0iemhegdv37pk9t7fj5he512@4ax.com>
References: <3e8ae086.45754328@news.m.iinet.net.au>
    <mddel4js73p.fsf@panix5.panix.com>
    <Pine.WNT.4.55.0304091916040.2832@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
    <ui0a9vciulrivca6lvvsop7afjse31t94e@4ax.com>
    <b73pco$2j0m$1@citadel.in.taronga.com>
    <mi1c9vsheprtl6jme56vg5bs4vd20i180i@4ax.com>
    <110420031526456776%elliott@yrl.co.uk>
Organization: Systematic Software
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 07:10:38 GMT
From: Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis@SystematicSw.ab.ca>
Subject: Re: Any DEC 340 Display System Doco ?

>Was there ever a VT100.TEC? 


We mandated the use of TECO/VTEDIT for screen editing on our
PDP-11/70s, w/ DH/DM-11s, VT-100s, and RSTS/E: max 9.6kbps @ 160
b/interrupt ==> 60 interrupts/s/developer gave the CPU something
to do while waiting for disk I/O. 

Thanks. Take care, Brian Inglis         Calgary, Alberta, Canada
-- 
Brian.Inglis@CSi.com    (Brian dot Inglis at SystematicSw dot ab dot ca)
    fake address                use address above to reply

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware, comp.sys.sun.wanted, uk.comp.sys.sun
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Message-ID: <b5srvk$t69$3@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <b5s4g9$omf$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 18:36:36 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: ergonomic mouse/keyboard for SUN

"charles taylor" <newc1695@new.ox.ac.uk> writes in comp.sys.sun.hardware:
|
|  I am currently using a bog-standard Sun keyboard and mouse, and a great
|  deal of my work is using the mouse. I have pains up my forearm from
|  using the mouse so much.
|
|  Also I find that the Microsoft Natural keyboard on my PC is
|  far more comfortable than the Sun keyboard.
|
|  Therefore I'd like to use either (and the question is, where can I
|  find them):
|
|  1. Sun-compatible (I'm using a Sun Ultra) ergonomic peripherals
|  2. An adapter for PS/2 peripherals so I can use my PC stuff.

There is a 3rd option: 

3. Upgrade to a SunBlade with built-in USB or add a USB PCI card to your
   Ultra (assuming it's new enough to have PCI) and use USB ergonomic
   keyboards & mice.  Standard OHCI USB cards should work - officially
   tested/supported ones are listed at:

        http://www.sun.com/io_technologies/pci/io.html#usb

   (Search on groups.google.com for previous mentions of OHCI in the
    Sun newsgroups for more details.)

I regularly use Logitech USB mice on SunBlades.  (No wheel support yet
unfortunately though.)

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith                              alanc@alum.calberkeley.org
http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/       aka: Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.sys.sun.hardware, comp.sys.sun.wanted, uk.comp.sys.sun
Message-ID: <slrnb88e73.q6q.takeme2yourNOMORESPAMPLEASE@scratch.garylaw.net>
References: <b5s4g9$omf$1@news.ox.ac.uk>
From: u n d e r a c h i e v e r <takeme2yourNOMORESPAMPLEASE@rocketmail.com>
Date: 28 Mar 2003 11:58:27 GMT
Subject: Re: ergonomic mouse/keyboard for SUN

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:55:53 -0000, charles taylor <newc1695@new.ox.ac.uk>
> wrote: A question about Sun peripherals:
> 
> I am currently using a bog-standard Sun keyboard and mouse, and a great deal
> of my work is using the mouse. I have pains up my forearm from using the
> mouse so much. Also I find that the Microsoft Natural keyboard on my PC is
> far more comfortable than the Sun keyboard.

there is a mouse / tablet combination availble from wacom (NOT usb)
which will work with sun workstations. much, much better than a mouse
when you get the hang of them.

I'd also recommend you get the USB version for your PC at home.

-- 
u n d e r a c h i e v e r

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.csua.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:23:14 +0000 (UTC)
References: <5aa351b8.0311230148.39b2be82@posting.google.com>
    <ddc8b54b.0311231607.7ee486ce@posting.google.com>
    <3FC72755.BA805742@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <bqakm2$24n7$3@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 17:23:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc%alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: SunRay USB usage

Ronald van Zantvoort <The_LoekiSPAMBUSTLINE@hotmail.com> writes in
comp.unix.solaris:
|>
|> Things get a little weird with scroll-wheels because different
|> vendors have chosen to interpret the spec differently in that area
|> but conformance for your basic 2-axis pointer plus buttons is as
|> close to universal as it gets.
|> 
|
|Are you saying that there ARE possibilities to get the scroll wheel
|working on a SunRay?
|If so, I'm very interested!


The scroll wheel on most USB mice should work if you're running Sun Ray
Server Software 2.0, but only in certain applications.  The gtk+ toolkit
Mozilla/Netscape 7 and StarOffice.

________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith                              alanc%alum.calberkeley.org
http://www.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU/~alanc/       aka: Alan.Coopersmith%Sun.COM
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris, alt.solaris.x86
Message-ID: <slrnbbc2c4.1sg.phil+s3@bolthole.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 06:49:40 GMT
From: Philip Brown <phil+s3@bolthole.no-bots.com>
Subject: announce: USB wheel mouse support in Solaris

I am happy to announce free drivers (source, + x86 binary package)
available to support a USB wheel mouse, with Solaris and Xsun.

Previously, you could use the "wheel" as the standard middle button,
but there was no support for actual rotation. Now you can get support for
it, using the drivers at:

    http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/drivers/usb-usbsm.html

There are probably bugs (and in fact, there is one definate, but
only partially understood bug) , but generally speaking, "it works for me".
So this is the official first release. 

Thanks go to   Chris Morgan and  Richard L. Hamilton for
"sponsoring" this driver. I have the feeling they did it as much
for finally having a reply to the "how do I get my wheel mouse
working in solaris" posts, as for their own direct benefit ;-)

-- 
  http://www.blastwave.org/ for solaris pre-packaged binaries with pkg-get
    Organized by the author of pkg-get
[Trim the no-bots from my address to reply to me by email!]
         S.1618 http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d105:SN01618:@@@D
                            http://www.spamlaws.com/state/ca1.html

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: sionnach.ireland.sun.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jul 2004 10:15:18 GMT
References: <10egqtsk1j4ou0e@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>
Organization: Sun Microsystems
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:14:22 +0100
From: Albert White <albert.white@sun.com>
Subject: Re: timeframe for 112785-36 (solaris 9 (sparc) Xsun patch)?

Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
> Any word on when 112785-36 (Xsun patch) will be available?

112785-38 is on sunsolve now.

Cheers,
~Al

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
References: <10egqtsk1j4ou0e@corp.supernews.com>
    <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>
Message-ID: <10f8qhdgcfvvba@corp.supernews.com>
Organization: Timetravellers Anonymous
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:03:09 -0000
From: Richard L. Hamilton <Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net>
Subject: Re: timeframe for 112785-36 (solaris 9 (sparc) Xsun patch)?

In article <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,
        Albert White <albert.white@sun.com> writes:
> Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
>> Any word on when 112785-36 (Xsun patch) will be available?
>
> 112785-38 is on sunsolve now.

Many thanks; I wouldn't have noticed until it got into patchdiag.xref.

To all those that worked on it: a _big_ woohoo!  It works! IT WORKS!

(My mouse is a Logitech TrackMan Wheel, P/N 504360-0000; arguably not
the easiest, so if it works with that, it should hopefully work with
most USB wheel mice.)

For those not already aware, it only works with toolkits that know about
the mousewheel to button 4 and button 5 mapping that's become conventional,
like gnome (so mozilla works, at least if you enable it in the
preferences), and KDE.  So it works in OpenOffice, too.

If one looks at places like

    http://koala.ilog.fr/colas/mouse-wheel-scroll/

and even more (but you have to separate mouse-wheel related resources
from other stuff that you really may not want; only take the resources
whose values contain one or more of Btn4Down, Btn4Up, Btn5Down, Btn5Up;
but they do have some others that some may find interesting too, even if
they might need to be modified) at

    http://www.bwalle.de/config/Xresources

there are resources one can add to one's .Xdefaults to make it work for
Motif apps (and Athena widgets apps), too.  With _most_ Motif apps it will
only work if the pointer is over the scroll bar, although with the Nedit,
if the resources specific to that are set, it will work with the pointer
over the text area too.  If someone finds away around the limitation
on the Motif apps, please pass the word!

Now, a question: if (with all these patches) one accesses a wheel mouse
as an X extension device, are the wheel steps still mapped to buttons
4 and 5 (as they have to be for a core X device, which is limited to
5 buttons and two axes), or is the wheel treated as an additional axis?
I ask because the <sys/vuid_wheel.h> include file seems to imply the
possibility (at the driver level if not necessarily at the X server level)
of dealing with multiple wheels (typically horizonal and vertical, but
potentially more).  If the wheels have additional meaning for an X
extension device, that reinforces my last point for this post:

Next on my personal X server related agenda: when will X extension devices
(like a buttonbox) work with XKB enabled?  Last I tried (not this patch,
but not that long ago), if XKB was enabled and one accessed an X extension
device, the X server would crash.

-- 
mailto:rlhamil@smart.net  http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.csua.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:20:27 +0000 (UTC)
References: <10egqtsk1j4ou0e@corp.supernews.com>
    <ccc0o5$15k$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <cd21or$23vr$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:20:27 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: timeframe for 112785-36 (solaris 9 (sparc) Xsun patch)?

Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org> writes in comp.unix.solaris:
|
|Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) writes in
|comp.unix.solaris:
||Any word on when 112785-36 (Xsun patch) will be available?
|
|Not sure - it's in the queue to be released, and seems to have passed
|all the testing rounds, so I'm not sure why it's still held up.
|Unforunately, I think the people who push the patches in the queue out
|to SunSolve are out this week along with most of the rest of us at Sun.
|I've sent them a message to find out what's up with it.

It was being held until the kernel patches got released, and then for
the patch release team to get back in the office after the
first-week-of-July shutdown for Sun's US offices.  They pushed it out
yesterday so it should be appearing on the various SunSolve servers
around the world today and tomorrow.  (Actually -38, which was ready to
go, instead of just -36.)

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith * alanc@alum.calberkeley.org * Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
 http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~alanc/   *   http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.
 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.csua.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
References: <10egqtsk1j4ou0e@corp.supernews.com>
    <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com> <10f8qhdgcfvvba@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <cd23j4$24hq$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:51:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: timeframe for 112785-36 (solaris 9 (sparc) Xsun patch)?

Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) writes in
comp.unix.solaris:
>
|In article <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com>,
|       Albert White <albert.white@sun.com> writes:
|>
|> Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
|>>
|>> Any word on when 112785-36 (Xsun patch) will be available?
|>
|> 112785-38 is on sunsolve now.
|
|Many thanks; I wouldn't have noticed until it got into patchdiag.xref.
|
|
|To all those that worked on it: a _big_ woohoo!  It works! IT WORKS!



You're welcome.  (Though I can only take credit for the part in Xsun -
much of the work was done by the USB team in the USB & PS/2 drivers.
I'll forward your note on to them as well.)

|(my mouse is a Logitech TrackMan Wheel, P/N 504360-0000; arguably not
|the easiest, so if it works with that, it should hopefully work with
|most USB wheel mice)


We've got a long list of mice that it worked on in the internal testing,
but no entries yet under the "doesn't work" column (though perhaps
that's just underreporting, but still a good sign that most common mice
follow the common de-facto standards here).


|For those not already aware, it only works with toolkits that know about
|the mousewheel to button 4 and button 5 mapping that's become conventional,
|like gnome (so mozilla works, at least if you enable it in the
|preferences), and KDE.  So it works in OpenOffice, too.

The S9 patch includes the Solaris xterm app-defaults changes for scrolling.

In Solaris Express/10, several CDE applications & widgets also got
scrolling support, but those were not backported to S9 - you can easily
get the same effects via $HOME/.Xdefaults entries such as this though
(or can customize it for the scroll speed you want):

*DtTerm*Translations: #override \
        Shift<Btn4Down>:        scroll(-1,page) \n\
        Shift<Btn5Down>:        scroll(1,page) \n\
        None<Btn4Down>:         scroll(-5,line) \n\
        None<Btn5Down>:         scroll(5,line)

*DtEditor.textTranslations: #override \
        Shift<Btn4Down>:        previous-page() \n\
        Shift<Btn5Down>:        next-page() \n\
        None<Btn4Down>:
process-up()process-up()process-up()process-up()process-up() \n\
        None<Btn5Down>:
process-down()process-down()process-down()process-down()process-down()

*DtHelpDialog*textTranslations: \
        <Btn4Down>:            PageUpOrDown(1)\n\
        <Btn5Down>:            PageUpOrDown(0)


|Now, a question: if (with all these patches) one accesses a wheel mouse
|as an X extension device, are the wheel steps still mapped to buttons
|4 and 5 (as they have to be for a core X device, which is limited to
|5 buttons and two axes), or is the wheel treated as an additional axis?


For now, it's not treated as an additional axis in any mode, core or
extension device.  You can change what the wheel events are mapped to
via OWconfig - unfortunately, like the rest of OWconfig it's undocumented
and support may not want to talk you if you try to edit it, but if you
don't mind that, here's the scoop (as written a while ago by an engineer,
not a tech writer, so apologies in advance for the non-user-friendliness):

    You can configure what X events are sent when you "roll" the wheel
    on WheelMice in a number of ways by editing the class="XINPUT"
    entries in the OWconfig file.

    For example, to make the mouse on a SPARC system roll in the
    opposite direction of the usual, you would change the "IMOUSE" entry
    in /usr/openwin/server/etc/OWconfig to look like this:

        # Sun Mouse module
        class="XINPUT" name="IMOUSE"
            wheelmaps="1=buttons 5 4"
            ddxHandler="ddxSUNWmouse.so.1"
            ddxInitFunc="ddxSUNWmouseProc";

    On x86, the mouse XINPUT entry is usually found in
    /etc/openwin/server/etc/OWconfig and would be changed in a similar
    fashion.

    The format of the wheelmaps option is:

        wheelmaps="wheelid=[times x ]action[,wheelid2=[times2 x ]action2...]"

    wheelid is an integer in the range 1-255 to specify a specific wheel
    or a * to match all wheels without a specific entry.

    An action of "axis X" or "axis Y" maps wheel rolls to movement along
    the specified axis. An action of "buttons A B " maps negative deltas
    to presses & releases of button A, and positive deltas to presses &
    releases of button B. An action of "keycodes A B " maps negative
    deltas to presses & releases of a key with keycode A, and positive
    deltas to presses & releases of a key with keycode B. (Mapping these
    keycodes to keysyms is left to the user, sysadmin, and/or desktop
    defaults.) An action of "discard" discards the events.

    The optional times modifier specifies number of times a button or
    keyboard event should be generated for each delta unit of wheel
    motion, or the number of pixels the delta should be multiplied by
    when generating motion events. The value must be a positive number
    for button and keyboard events, but may be negative for motion
    events. (Normally rolling the wheel "up" generates motion towards
    the origin, so specifying a negative pixels value reverses the
    direction of the motion.) If the times modifier is not specifed, the
    default value of 1.0 is used for all types of event. If a
    non-integer value is specified, events may be buffered until enough
    are accumulated to represent a whole event. For example, if a value
    of 0.25 is specified, only one out of every 4 single-delta wheel
    events will be reported.

    If not specified, the default for a mouse device is equivalent to:

       wheelmaps="*=1.0 x buttons 4 5"

    for compatibility with the XFree86 defaults, Sun Ray implementation,
    and existing wheel mouse aware X applications. When one or more
    wheels on a mouse device are mapped to buttons, the mouse DDX will,
    if necessary, increase the number of buttons the mouse is reported
    as having to at least as many as the highest button id assigned to a
    wheel action.

    For example, when testing with the Logitech MouseMan Wheel, I found
    it worked better with a slightly modified configuration. This mouse
    has 3 buttons plus a wheel, which can also be pressed as a button.
    In the default configuration, pressing the wheel button is reported
    as button 2, while the button on the side where the thumb normally
    rests is button 4. The default configuration resulted in the thumb
    button presses scrolling up, just as rolling the scroll wheel up
    did. To make the buttons more usable it was simply necessary to set
    the wheelmap action to "buttons 5 6" and then use "xmodmap pointer =
    1 6 3 2 4 5" which mapped the "thumb" button to button id 2, the
    wheel as a button to button 6, and the turns of the wheel to buttons
    4 & 5 where the clients expect them.

    (Note that this all only applies to the DDX modules for directly
     connected devices, not Sun Rays.)

[Yes, that was a huge cut and paste.  The original was even longer and
more overwhelming to non-engineering types with a full BNF description
of the syntax.  It was also a little easier to read in HTML format so
the parameters showed up in italic.  Perhaps I'll post it to my blog on
blogs.sun.com one of these days.]


|I ask because the <sys/vuid_wheel.h> include file seems to imply the
|possibility (at the driver level if not necessarily at the X server level)
|of dealing with multiple wheels (typically horizonal and vertical, but
|potentially more).  If the wheels have additional meaning for an X
|extension device, that reinforces my last point for this post:


The VUID support was designed to allow such things, but I believe the drivers
only report a single wheel at this time for all mice.


|Next on my personal X server related agenda: when will X extension devices
|(like a buttonbox) work with XKB enabled?  Last I tried (not this patch,
|but not that long ago), if XKB was enabled and one accessed an X extension
|device, the X server would crash.

I didn't know that was a problem - I'll see if I can reproduce it one of
these days and if so, add it to the long list of XKB bugs I've got to work
on.   (I'd tell you what's next on my X server agenda, but I don't think
I can talk about it until certain announcements/releases are made later
this month.  It's definitely much more work than wheel mouse support.)

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith * alanc@alum.calberkeley.org * Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
 http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~alanc/   *   http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: cs1.gmu.edu
References: <10egqtsk1j4ou0e@corp.supernews.com>
    <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com> <10f8qhdgcfvvba@corp.supernews.com>
    <cd23j4$24hq$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <cd2e0o$1dm@portal.gmu.edu>
Organization: George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Date: 14 Jul 2004 04:49:28 GMT
From: Markus Gyger <mgyger@gmu.edu>
Subject: Re: timeframe for 112785-36 (solaris 9 (sparc) Xsun patch)?

Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org> writes:
>
> In Solaris Express/10, several CDE applications & widgets also got
> scrolling support, but those were not backported to S9 - you can easily
> get the same effects via $HOME/.Xdefaults entries such as this though
> (or can customize it for the scroll speed you want):
>
> *DtTerm*Translations: #override \
>         Shift<Btn4Down>:        scroll(-1,page) \n\
>         Shift<Btn5Down>:        scroll(1,page) \n\
>         None<Btn4Down>:         scroll(-5,line) \n\
>         None<Btn5Down>:         scroll(5,line)


Putting the following into /etc/dt/app-defaults/C/Dtterm
even allows to kind of scroll inside of "less" (like, if
env var PAGER is set to 'less -s', also in "man")... ;-)

#include "/usr/dt/app-defaults/C/Dtterm"
Dtterm*dtTerm*Translations:     #override       \
~Alt    ~Meta    Shift  ~Ctrl   <Btn4Down>:     scroll(-1,page) \n\
~Alt    ~Meta    Shift  ~Ctrl   <Btn5Down>:     scroll(1,page)  \n\
~Alt    ~Meta   ~Shift  ~Ctrl   <Btn4Down>:     scroll(-5,line) \n\
~Alt    ~Meta   ~Shift  ~Ctrl   <Btn5Down>:     scroll(5,line)  \n\
~Alt    ~Meta   ~Shift   Ctrl   <Btn4Down>:     scroll(-1,line) \n\
~Alt    ~Meta   ~Shift   Ctrl   <Btn5Down>:     scroll(1,line)  \n\
~Alt    ~Meta    Shift   Ctrl   <Btn4Down>:     string(\033[A)  \n\
~Alt    ~Meta    Shift   Ctrl   <Btn5Down>:     string(\033[B)  \n\
 Alt             Shift   Ctrl   <Btn4Down>:     string(\033[D)  \n\
 Alt             Shift   Ctrl   <Btn5Down>:     string(\033[C)  \n\
         Meta    Shift   Ctrl   <Btn4Down>:     string(\033[D)  \n\
         Meta    Shift   Ctrl   <Btn5Down>:     string(\033[C)


Markus

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.93.238.231
NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jul 2004 10:43:24 CEST
References: <10egqtsk1j4ou0e@corp.supernews.com>
    <cd0cnm$aqo$1@new-usenet.uk.sun.com> <10f8qhdgcfvvba@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <40f4f22c$0$14941$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Netherlands
Date: 14 Jul 2004 08:43:24 GMT
From: Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: timeframe for 112785-36 (solaris 9 (sparc) Xsun patch)?

Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) writes:

>For those not already aware, it only works with toolkits that know about
>the mousewheel to button 4 and button 5 mapping that's become conventional,
>like gnome (so mozilla works, at least if you enable it in the
>preferences), and KDE.  So it works in OpenOffice, too.


I'm not sure if the patch contains the same default translations
for xterm and other old tools, but you can add something like:

XTerm*VT100.Translations: #override \
                None<Btn4Down>:         scroll-back(1, halfpage) \n\
                None<Btn5Down>:         scroll-forw(1, halfpage)

to your .Xdefaults file to get a mouse wheel working in xterm.

Other applications have it hidden somewhere deep in menu structures and
you need to enable it explicitely (exmh, for one)

Casper
--
Expressed in this posting are my opinions.  They are in no way related
to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems.
Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may
be fiction rather than truth.

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
References: <cis5ga$7l8$1@srv38.cas.org>
Message-ID: <10l3skqd85t6642@corp.supernews.com>
Organization: Timetravellers Anonymous
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:46:02 -0000
From: Richard L. Hamilton <Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net>
Subject: Re: ISO: help for user with 2 button trackball using sparc solaris 8 gnome 2.0

In article <cis5ga$7l8$1@srv38.cas.org>, lvirden@gmail.com writes:
>
> I got a problem report from a user which says that on her system, she
> uses a 2 button trackball instead of a standard 3 button mouse.
> When she uses the right most of the two mouse buttons, she does not
> get the standard menu action in metacity/gnome.  She is using this
> trackball just fine under OpenWindows.
>
> I have googled, but have not found any info concerning trackballs
> and solaris.  Is this a supported configuration?


Assuming a USB mouse or trackball, I don't know about "supported", but
trackballs typically behave just like mice as far as the system is
concerned, so they should work; I use a Logitech TrackMan Wheel (USB) (the
wheel only works with a recent set of patches, and that's on Solaris 9, I
haven't checked if they're available for Solaris 8).  Assuming an older
system with a Type 5 serial mouse and keyboard, they're strange and _not_
compatible with anything for a PC, however an adaptor is available (and in
my experience makes all devices look like they only have 2 buttons, even
if they have 3).

Try using the program xev (/usr/openwin/demo/xev) to find out which button
numbers the buttons have; and if they're not the ones you want, you
should be able to remap them with xmodmap.

Most Unix toolkits assume a 3 button mouse, but make some provision for
working with a 2 button mouse.  Button mapping (unless modified by xmodmap
or some GUI option that does the same sort of thing) is normally 1=left,
2=middle, 3=right.  Usually, 2 button mice or trackballs are made to look
like they leave out the middle button; perhaps this one for some crazy
reason looks like it's leaving out the right button?  (xmodmap could remap
that easily enough; but if you use xmodmap, you'll probably have to put
the command in some per-user startup file so it gets run every time they
log in)

http://docs.sun.com/db/doc/806-6873/6jfpm4g34?a=view

says that GNOME 2.0 on Solaris uses the buttons as follows:

> All the instructions in this manual are for the following types of mouse
> devices:
>
>    * Devices that are configured for right-hand users.
> * Three button devices.  If you have a two-button mouse device, then you
> press the two buttons simultaneously to simulate the effect of a middle
> mouse button.
[...]
> To reverse the handedness of your mouse device, choose Applications ->
> Desktop Preferences -> Mouse, then select the options that you require.  If
> you do reverse the handedness of your mouse device, then you must reverse
> the mouse button conventions used in this manual.
[...]
> Mouse Button         Usage
>
> Left mouse button    Use to perform the following actions:
>
>                      * Select text.
>                      * Choose items.
>                      * Drag items.
>
> Middle mouse button  Use to perform the following actions:
>
>                      * Paste text.
>                      * Move items.
>
> Right mouse button   Opens a menu for the selected object, if a menu applies.


-- 
mailto:rlhamil@smart.net  http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil

Lasik/PRK theme music:
    "In the Hall of the Mountain King", from "Peer Gynt"

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
References: <cdf6rn$1mdo$1@news.iquest.net>
    <10fmsm2bodvaf1a@corp.supernews.com>    <cdhlh2$qqn$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <10lclho2c9is052@corp.supernews.com>
Organization: Timetravellers Anonymous
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 05:40:08 -0000
From: Richard L. Hamilton <Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net>
Subject: Re: numlockx-1.0

In article <cdhlh2$qqn$1@agate.berkeley.edu>,
        Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org> writes:
>
> Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) writes in comp.unix.solaris:
>|
>| CDE does not have an option to set the initial state of Num Lock.
>
> The S9 Xsun patches that introduce wheel mouse support also change Xsun
> to maintain the numlock state when Xsun starts up - if the NumLock or
> CapsLock LED is on when Xsun starts, it fakes a push of the
> corresponding key to simulate starting in the right mode.  (Previously
> it just cleared the led/lock states at startup.)  If you turn NumLock on
> before Xsun starts it should be automatically on by default -
> unfortunately, this is easiest to automate with the x86 BIOS options
> to activate numlock at boot.  I don't know of a similar option in any
> SPARC OBP, but you should be able to just put a program in
> /etc/rc2.d before Xsun starts that does something like this
> (copied and pasted from a larger program - I haven't tested compiling
> or running this cut-down snippet - that's left as an exercise for the
> reader):

If it works, that would set the LED, which according to what you describe
would be enough to cause the X server to assume the corresponding shift
state at startup.

But (if only for completeness), it looks like there's no way (short of
digging in /dev/kmem in a most outrageous manner) to programmatically
manipulate the shift state while in plain old console mode.  It might
be nice if there were an additional kb(7m) ioctl to do that; I'd think
it would be easy enough to implement...

-- 
mailto:rlhamil@smart.net  http://www.smart.net/~rlhamil

Lasik/PRK theme music:
    "In the Hall of the Mountain King", from "Peer Gynt"

 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 
Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.csua.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:50:21 +0000 (UTC)
References: <86actfaxub.fsf@ketchup.de.uu.net>
Message-ID: <cninct$k99$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:50:21 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: EmulateThreeButtons with Solaris 9/sparc?

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes in comp.unix.solaris:
|
| I have a clone which groks USB.  So I attached my USB wheel mouse.  It
| works almost as I like, wheel and all, except that I've gotten fond of
| pressing the left and right buttons simultaneously to simulate the
| third mouse button.  Pressing the wheel itself is really difficult
| with this mouse.
|
| I hear that kdmconfig can do this, but it seems to be x86-only.
|
| Is there a solution for Solaris 9/SPARC?


I haven't tried, but you should be able to just create the SPARC
equivalent of the configuration file that kdmconfig would create for you.

Try editing /usr/openwin/server/etc/OWconfig and in this section:

# Sun Mouse module
class="XINPUT" name="IMOUSE"
        ddxHandler="ddxSUNWmouse.so.1"
        ddxInitFunc="ddxSUNWmouseProc";

Change it to look like this (add the emulTimeout line--set the timeout
to whatever speed you prefer; kdmconfig offers 25, 50, and 100 as the
usual options):

# Sun Mouse module with 100 ms 3-button emulation
class="XINPUT" name="IMOUSE"
        emulTimeout="100"
        ddxHandler="ddxSUNWmouse.so.1"
        ddxInitFunc="ddxSUNWmouseProc";

--
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith * alanc@alum.calberkeley.org * Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
 http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~alanc/   *   http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: fw.tools.de
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 13:22:36 +0000 (UTC)
References: <1fda287d.0411290437.3220d90b@posting.google.com>
Message-ID: <wyvfboiy1m.fsf@tools.de>
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:29:09 +0100
From: Juergen Keil <jk@tools.de>
Subject: Re: Traditional kdmouse problem on Solaris 10_63

james.wilde@glocalnet.com (James Wilde) writes:
>
> I have no file /dev/kdmouse - which would, presumably, be a symlink to
> a file in /devices - and I can find no information about which file it
> should point to.

% ls -l /dev/kdmouse
lrwxrwxrwx   1 root     root          35 Nov 23 13:20 /dev/kdmouse ->
                      ../devices/isa/i8042@1,60/mouse@1:l

But this link only exists if the DCA has detected a PS/2 mouse device.

If you use a serial mouse, or an usb mouse, /dev/kdmouse doesn't exist.


> If someone could be so kind as to explain how to resolve this problem,
> and preferably send a file suitable for use with a ps2 mouse coupled
> via a kvm switch, I should be very much in their debt.

Maybe your system's BIOS does not detect a connected PS/2 mouse device
at boot time when the kvm has connected keyboard/mouse to another
system at boot time.  So the PnP device database / ACPI information
does not list a PS/2 mouse device when Solaris boots, so that Solaris
won't create the /devices/isa/i8042@1,60/mouse@1 device?

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris, alt.unix.solarisx86
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.csua.berkeley.edu
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 05:01:53 +0000 (UTC)
References: <d6vqni$irn$1@online.de>
Message-ID: <d710s1$1ggq$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Date: Wed, 25 May 2005 05:01:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: Alan Coopersmith <alanc@alum.calberkeley.org>
Subject: Re: Solaris 10 x86, Thinkpad and mouse configuration

"Bernd.Schemmer" <bnsmb@online.de> writes in comp.unix.solaris:
|
| I asked this question in a Solaris x86 newgroup but did not get any answer. 

You didn't even wait 24 hours--have a little patience.

|While using my Thinkpad in the docking station I use an external USB 
|mouse. If the Thinkpad is not in the docking station I  use the internal 
|mouse (PS/2) of the Thinkpad.
|
|Now everytime I switch from Dockingstation use to non-dockingstation use 
|(and vice versa)  I need to run kdmconfig to reconfigure the mouse.
|
|Can I avoid this?
|
|I'm using Solaris 10 x86 and the Sun xserver (not xorg).

Right now, this is much much easier to set up with Xorg than Xsun.
Xorg can be configured to just use multiple mice at once, while Xsun
recognizes only one mouse at a time as controlling the cursor.

You can configure Xsun to use multiple mice, but will still have to run
a program to switch which mouse is active (you won't have to exit your
session and restart though).

For Xsun with a USB & a PS/2 mouse:

1. pkgrm SUNWxwmod and reboot

2. For each mouse device (leave the one you want to be default
   until last to make things easier), run kdmconfig and configure the mouse
   device. After each one is successfully configured, go into
   /etc/openwin/server/etc/OWconfig and save the class="XINPUT" section
   for the mouse device.

3. Once you've got all the correct sections and have kdmconfig set
   to the device you want to be default, vi the OWconfig file and paste in
   the sections for all the other devices. Make sure each XINPUT class
   entry has a unique "name" field. There should be a section
   class="XDISPLAY" name="0" with corePointer= the device name you chose to
   be default.

4. vi /usr/openwin/server/etc/OWconfig and comment out the lines
   for class="XINPUT" and name="NKBD" & name="NMOUSE". (Otherwise it will
   be difficult to tell which devices are real devices and which are the
   virtual "null" devices.)

5. Download and build xinput from
        http://www.x.org/contrib/utilities/xinput-1.2.tar.gz
   (README at http://www.x.org/contrib/utilities/xinput.README )

6. Restart Xsun and login. You should be able to move the mouse
   with the default device, use "xinput list" to list all the devices, and
   "xinput set-pointer <device-name> to switch the mouse pointer to be 
   controlled by a different device. (Unfortunately, it's hard to tell
   which device is which from the xinputdev list, but if you only have 
   two it should be easy to tell which is currently "core" (controlling
   the mouse cursor) and which is "extension" (not controlling the mouse
   cursor).

For Xorg with a USB & PS/2 mouse:

1) Create an xorg.conf using either xorgconfig or by running 
   "Xorg -configure".

2) Edit xorg.conf and add this line to the "ServerLayout" section:
        InputDevice    "Mouse1" "AlwaysCore"

   Change the "InputDevice" section for "Mouse0" to look like this:

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "PS/2"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/kdmouse"
        Option      "SendCoreEvents"
# Uncomment/set if needed:
#       Option      "Emulate3Buttons" "true"
#       Option      "Buttons" "7"
EndSection

   and add this new section:

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse1"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "VUID"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/mouse"
EndSection
                                
And just for completeness/future reference--in Solaris Express 6/05 
& newer, and eventually in a Solaris 10 update release, you should be
able to use this simplified procedure:

1) Configure either Xorg or Xsun for USB mouse as the one and only
   mouse pointer.   Use any PS/2 or USB mouse you want at any time.

 [The kernel will automatically combine all mouse devices into a single
 virtual USB mouse device, taking care of hotplugging, PS/2 vs. USB,
 and all other details behind the scenes for you.]

-- 
________________________________________________________________________
Alan Coopersmith * alanc@alum.calberkeley.org * Alan.Coopersmith@Sun.COM
 http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~alanc/   *   http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/
  Working for, but definitely not speaking for, Sun Microsystems, Inc.


 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops
Path: cs.utk.edu!cssun.mathcs.emory.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!usc
      !math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!purdue
      !haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.duke.edu!news.mathworks.com
      !newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newstf01.news.aol.com
      !newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <47n8eu$fpb@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Reply-To: karidis@aol.com (Karidis)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com
Date: 7 Nov 1995 04:21:34 -0500
From: karidis@aol.com (Karidis)
Subject: IBM TP 701 Keyboard Inventor Looking for Comments...


As the originator of the TrackWrite(tm) keyboard on the ThinkPad 701, I have
been pleased to see virtually no keyboard problems reported in this newsgroup.

But I'm looking for feedback on the design of the keyboard and its mechanism, 
so if you have any comments or suggestions, please send a note.  Thanks!


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
NNTP-Posting-Host: b250.ppp-bg.sezampro.yu [194.106.189.250]
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 02:52:17 +0000 (UTC)
References: <pan.2005.02.28.22.53.44.352584@null.com>
    <d00sf9$sqm$2@news.beotel.net>
    <pan.2005.03.02.01.22.33.40638@bed.jdc.bogus> <d0372g$2ob$2@news.beotel.net>
Message-ID: <d05u50$ucn$1@news.beotel.net>
Organization: Beotel.net
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 03:52:16 +0100
From: Luka Vuletic <lvuletic@seezaampro.yu>
Subject: Re: IntelliMouse and X

James Brady wrote:
>
> I have an "IntelliMouse Web 1.0A PS/2 Compatible" mouse, which has 7
> buttons - 2 standard, a mouse wheel (up, down, click) and two side
> buttons.
>
> At the moment, the wheel rolls and side buttons are creating two X events
> for each actual event - a wheel roll might trigger buttons 4 & 6 click and
> release events.
>
> The relevant part of my XFree config: Section "InputDevice"
>         Identifier      "IntelliMouse"
>         Driver          "mouse"
>         Option          "CorePointer"
>         Option          "Device"                "/dev/psaux"
>       Option          "Protocol"              "ExplorerPS/2"
>       Option          "Buttons"               "7"
>       Option          "ZAxisMapping"          "6 7"
>
> I have tried lots of buttons, mappings, protocol combinations. Xmodmap,
> imwheel, gpm etc are not being used.



Luka Vuletic wrote:
|
| Need to translate it first. Stay tuned :)


As I promised, there you are...

Ok... heres my solution, compiled from few online hints and tutorials...

Define your mouse like this:

---------------
Identifier  "Mouse1"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/mouse"
        Option      "Buttons" "7"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "6 7"
---------------

Mouse in my case is Logitech MX310, but who cares, 99% of new
"multiplebutton" mices works nice with  "ExplorerPS/2"... Fact is, this
mouse has additional button (8th) one, but I really do not have idea what I
would do with it :)

Next, make file named '.imwheelrc' in your $HOME with this contents:

------------------------
"(null)"
None, Up, Alt_L|Left
None, Down, Alt_L|Right

".*"
None, Up, Alt_L|Left
None, Down, Alt_L|Right
------------------------

Final step is

----------------------------------------
xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 2 3 6 7 4 5"
imwheel -k -b "67"
----------------------------------------

You should place it somewhere in your startup, but AFTER X-server is started.

You may place it in ~/.kde/Autostart, or you can even modify 'startkde'
script if you are using KDE.

Of course, you will need to download imwheel for this to work, link is:

    http://imwheel.sourceforge.net

Thats it... now your back and forth buttons should work in any
application... except in krusader; krusader uses different mappings.

BTW... someone said this method is outdated... I would really appreciate
if he/she could inform us how to do it 'the more modern' way...

-- 
Registered Linux user #383133 - Powered by Slackware

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
References: <pan.2005.02.28.22.53.44.352584@null.com>
    <d00sf9$sqm$2@news.beotel.net> <pan.2005.03.02.01.22.33.40638@bed.jdc.bogus>
Message-ID: <slrnd2a8kr.m39.danSPANceswitTRAPhcrows@samantha.crow202.dyndns.org>
Date: 2 Mar 2005 02:18:55 GMT
From: Dances With Crows <danSPANceswitTRAPhcrows@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: IntelliMouse and X

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 20:22:35 -0500, John D. Coleman staggered into the
Black Sun and said:
> On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 05:52:56 +0100, Luka Vuletic wrote:
>> James Brady wrote:
[ mouse with many buttons ]
>>> Basically, I don't really care that much about the side buttons, I
>>> would just like the wheel to work properly.
>> If you care just about wheel, try ZAxisMapping 4 5. I have also back
>> and forth buttons functional on my Logitech MX310 using imwheel and
>> xmodmap...

imwheel?  Er, that's really outdated and shouldn't be used now that
there are better solutions.  Oh well, whatever works....

> I have a Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0 Model 1008, with left,
> right buttons. A wheel that rolls up & down, click, and goes left &
> right.  To get my mouse seen by Linux, I had to enable the USB stuff.
> Very confusing docs in the kernel.

?  "modprobe uhci_hcd" or "modprobe ohci_hcd", "modprobe hid".  That's
all you need to do for kernel stuff.  X config is a little different,
like so:

Section "InputDevice"
  Driver       "mouse"
  Identifier   "Mouse[0]"
  Option       "ButtonNumber" "7"  # replace with actual button#
  Option       "Device" "/dev/input/mice" # USB mouse device
  Option       "Protocol" "imps/2" # usually the right one, but...
  Option       "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" # for scrolly-wheel
EndSection

Mice with more than 5 buttons usually use the exps/2 protocol, not
the imps/2 one.  The events for buttons > 5 can be translated into
almost anything with xbindkeys and xmacroplay.

> But from what I've read, X can only see 5 mouse buttons

Not really true any longer.

> and all this 'xev','xmodmap', etc is confusing also.

xev : X event tester.  This is usually just a basic diagnostic to make
sure the mouse is responding correctly.

xmodmap : Not as useful as it should be; all it does is map single keys
to other single keys or single button presses to other single button
presses.  For anything fancy, you need:

xbindkeys : Very useful program that allows you to bind any key
combination or button press to any command you can write on a command
line at all.  Has a frontend called gtk-xbindkeys.  Useful in
combination with:

xmacroplay : Utility that uses XTest to simulate mouse and keyboard
events.  With xbindkeys and xmacroplay, you can make it so that pressing
button 6 on your mouse sends "Alt+Left" to the X server, and Firefox and
Konqueror interpret Alt+Left as "go back one page".

> And then if X works with it, I then have to get the apps to respond to
> it ???  NUTS ! I need to go get a Masters in Computer Science to maybe
> figure this out :)

An MS in CS is useless for this kind of work.  No real CS person wants
to fiddle with actual hardware; that's *terribly* gauche.

--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin /    mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
http://www.brainbench.com     /                Hire me!
-----------------------------/ http://crow202.dyndns.org/~mhgraham/resume

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: fw.tools.de
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:52:52 +0000 (UTC)
References: <SfOdnVRiWNyjtTPfRVn-sg@rogers.com>
    <d8ldi5$28vs$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <DbSdnUsLSYui2TPfRVn-1Q@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <wyu0k1nwuy.fsf@tiger2.tools.intra>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:52:53 +0200
From: Juergen Keil <jk@tools.de>
Subject: Re: SPARC USB Mouse ScrollWheel

Eric Enright <eric.enright@gmail.com> writes:

> However, I just tested this a moment ago and it does
> work with gnome-terminal when I am logged into JDS.  Now
> I'm back in CDE and the wheel "buttons" don't seem
> to register at all, not even with xev.

Check the $HOME/.dt/sessions/current/dt.settings file.  Is there a
"ButtonMap" resource?  Does it contain the expected value of
"1,2,3,4,5" or are the buttons 4&5 both mapped to "0"?

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.27.203.200
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:27:50 -0500
References: <SfOdnVRiWNyjtTPfRVn-sg@rogers.com>
    <d8ldi5$28vs$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <DbSdnUsLSYui2TPfRVn-1Q@rogers.com>
    <wyu0k1nwuy.fsf@tiger2.tools.intra>
Message-ID: <O56dnW1Bj_iKPjPfRVn-iA@rogers.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:27:51 -0500
From: Eric Enright <eric.enright@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: SPARC USB Mouse ScrollWheel

Buttons 4 and 5 were both mapped to zero, and setting them
to the appropriate values fixed things up for me.

Thanks!

Eric

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: fw.tools.de
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:38:23 +0000 (UTC)
References: <SfOdnVRiWNyjtTPfRVn-sg@rogers.com>
    <d8ldi5$28vs$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <DbSdnUsLSYui2TPfRVn-1Q@rogers.com>
    <wyu0k1nwuy.fsf@tiger2.tools.intra> <O56dnW1Bj_iKPjPfRVn-iA@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <wypsupnur4.fsf@tiger2.tools.intra>
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:38:23 +0200
From: Juergen Keil <jk@tools.de>
Subject: Re: SPARC USB Mouse ScrollWheel

AFAIR, the next time you change mouse preferences in CDE, the file
will be corrupted once again and you have to apply the same fix for
the mapping of buttons 4&5.

-- 
jk

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.228.81.221
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:06:24 +0000 (UTC)
References: <4394a5ee@news.nucleus.com><dn8a2k$2t1g$1@agate.berkeley.edu>  
    <dn8gkl$2v0e$1@agate.berkeley.edu>   <wjzlkxvm01m.fsf@stjorn.ifi.uio.no>  
    <1136461551.55864@docbert>   <11rvt726o34sd9a@corp.supernews.com>
Message-ID: <1136657974.527994.309570@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Date: 8 Jan 2006 08:37:30 -0800
From: Glenn <eponymousalias@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: NEW KEYBOARD COMING!!!

Richard L. Hamilton wrote:
>
> As for scroll mouse middle buttons, how many ways can they be?  Those
> on my Logitech Trackman Wheel (thumb trackball) are perhaps too narrow
> and rounded to my liking, better as a scroll wheel but fairly poor as
> a middle mouse button (which isn't as big a deal on Windows anyway,
> remember, so those of us who use X11 tend to get forgotten in our desire
> for three _decent_ buttons).  I suppose it would be possible to have
> a scroll wheel that was wider, flatter side-to-side, maybe a little larger
> diameter (to be closer to the size of the buttons on either side of it).
> Off the top of my head, I can't think of a mouse that was made like that,
> but then the larger diameter at least would tend to make the mouse too
> thick; although I suppose the scroll wheel could be made wider and less
> curved side-to-side easily enough.

Or you could re-think where the scroll wheel is placed on the mouse:

    http://www.contourdesign.com/pmo/index.htm

 ..............................................................................

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.75.136.120
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 13:48:36 PST
References: <4394a5ee@news.nucleus.com> <dn8a2k$2t1g$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
    <dn8gkl$2v0e$1@agate.berkeley.edu> <wjzlkxvm01m.fsf@stjorn.ifi.uio.no>
    <1136461551.55864@docbert> <11rvt726o34sd9a@corp.supernews.com>
    <lnr77jlq53.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <43c0fd8b$0$11069$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <lny81qgzm4.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
Date: Sun, 08 Jan 2006 21:48:36 GMT
From: Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Subject: Re: NEW KEYBOARD COMING!!!

Casper H.S. Dik <Casper.Dik@Sun.COM> writes:
> Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
>>Richard.L.Hamilton@mindwarp.smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) writes:
>>[...]
>>> As for scroll mouse middle buttons, how many ways can they be?  Those
>>> on my Logitech Trackman Wheel (thumb trackball) are perhaps too narrow
>>> and rounded to my liking, better as a scroll wheel but fairly poor as
>>> a middle mouse button (which isn't as big a deal on Windows anyway,
>>> remember, so those of us who use X11 tend to get forgotten in our desire
>>> for three _decent_ buttons).  I suppose it would be possible to have
>>> a scroll wheel that was wider, flatter side-to-side, maybe a little larger
>>> diameter (to be closer to the size of the buttons on either side of it).
>>> Off the top of my head, I can't think of a mouse that was made like that,
>>> but then the larger diameter at least would tend to make the mouse too
>>> thick; although I suppose the scroll wheel could be made wider and less
>>> curved side-to-side easily enough.
>
>>Why can't the scroll wheel and the middle button be separate?
>
> Because my finger doesn't extend?  Where would you put the
> scroll wheel?  I get fingercramp as soon as I'd have to move
> my finger somewhere else to scroll it.
>
> I have no issue whatsoever with a scroll wheel as middle button.

Obviously different people have different needs and preferences;
I'm not suggesting you shouldn't use whatever works best for you.

For myself, I can cope with having the scroll wheel double as the
middle button, but I'd rather have them separate.  The middle button
should be between the left and right buttons.  I'm actually not sure
where the scroll wheel should go (and I'd much rather have a wheel
than a touchpad).  Maybe the wheel could be between left and middle
buttons, or between the middle and right buttons, but that could be
awkward.  Or maybe it could be on the side, to be operated by the
thumb -- but of course that would require distinct left- and
right-handed versions.

Or possibly there should be a control that locks the wheel, so it's
either a scroll wheel or a middle button, but it doesn't try to act as
both simultaneously.

(All occurrences of "should" refer to what I'd like to see in my own
private mouse, not something I wish to impose on anyone else -- as all
the various current flawed designs are imposed on me.)

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
San Diego Supercomputer Center             <*>  <http://users.sdsc.edu/~kst>
We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.debian, comp.os.linux.misc, comp.os.linux.x
NNTP-Posting-Host: jxc0V9gZro3LX/plZqqeHw.user.aioe.org
Message-ID: <fcah40$t3s$1@aioe.org>
Organization: Dinosaur Fedex
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:16:45 -0700
From: Geico Caveman <spammers-go-here@spam.invalid>
Subject: Update broke middle mouse button paste

About a month ago, an update (I am assuming this, since I did not change
any configuration files) broke the middle mouse button paste function. xev
registers buttons 1, 3 (left and right) and 4,5 (up and down scroll - the
middle mouse button on this Microsoft mouse is a scroll wheel+button) but
not button 2. This is a Debian testing + unstable install.

I am managing with Emulate3Buttons in xorg.conf but I absolutely hate having
to use this when I have a functioning middle mouse button just because of
some stupid software bug.

How do I fix this ?

Excerpt from my /etc/X11/xorg.conf :


Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier      "Configured Mouse"
        Driver          "mouse"
        #Option         "CorePointer"
        Option          "Device"                "/dev/input/mice"
        Option          "Protocol"              "ImPS/2"
        Option          "Emulate3Buttons"       "true"
        Option          "ZAxisMapping"          "4 5"
EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"
        InputDevice     "Configured Mouse"      "CorePointer"
EndSection

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
NNTP-Posting-Host: 83.160.204.132
References: <fcah40$t3s$1@aioe.org>
Message-ID: <46e923ee$0$242$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:49:59 +0200
From: Kees Theunissen <theuniss@rijnh.nl>
Subject: Re: Update broke middle mouse button paste

Geico Caveman wrote:
>
> About a month ago, an update (I am assuming this, since I did not change any
> configuration files) broke the middle mouse button paste function. xev
> registers buttons 1, 3 (left and right) and 4,5 (up and down scroll - the
> middle mouse button on this Microsoft mouse is a scroll wheel+button) but
> not button 2. This is a Debian testing + unstable install.
>
> I am managing with Emulate3Buttons in xorg.conf but I absolutely hate having
> to use this when I have a functioning middle mouse button just because of
> some stupid software bug.
>
> How do I fix this ?


It probably is a broken mouse (failing micro switch) if xev doesn't
show press/release events for button 2. Did you try another mouse?
Did you test the mouse on another computer or with a live CD or a
different OS?

Can you use button 2 with "gpm", outside of X on a virtual console?


 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
NNTP-Posting-Host: youmustbejoking.demon.co.uk
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:22:27 +0000 (UTC)
References: <fcah40$t3s$1@aioe.org>
Message-ID: <4F27220D8C%news@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:21:35 +0100
From: Darren Salt <news@youmustbejoking.demon.cu.invalid>
Subject: Re: Update broke middle mouse button paste

I demand that Geico Caveman may or may not have written...
>
> About a month ago, an update (I am assuming this, since I did not change
> any configuration files) broke the middle mouse button paste function. xev
> registers buttons 1, 3 (left and right) and 4,5 (up and down scroll - the
> middle mouse button on this Microsoft mouse is a scroll wheel+button) but
> not button 2. This is a Debian testing + unstable install.

Are you sure that it's not the mouse which is broken?

[snip]

-- 
| Darren Salt    | linux or ds at              | nr. Ashington, | Toon
| RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army
| + Generate power using sun, wind, water, nuclear.      FORGET COAL AND OIL.

I will not forget me.

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
NNTP-Posting-Host: 90.227.204.112
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:17:31 +0000 (UTC)
References: <fcah40$t3s$1@aioe.org>
Message-ID: <1190427451.161535.127280@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 02:17:31 -0000
From: AJackson <anders.jackson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Update broke middle mouse button paste

On Sep 13, 7:16 am, Geico Caveman wrote:
>
> About a month ago, an update (I am assuming this, since I did not change
> any configuration files) broke the middle mouse button paste function. xev
> registers buttons 1, 3 (left and right) and 4,5 (up and down scroll - the
> middle mouse button on this Microsoft mouse is a scroll wheel+button) but
> not button 2. This is a Debian testing + unstable install.
>
> I am managing with Emulate3Buttons in xorg.conf but I absolutely hate having
> to use this when I have a functioning middle mouse button just because of
> some stupid software bug.
>
> How do I fix this ?
>
> Excerpt from my /etc/X11/xorg.conf
> .
> .
> .


Did you get this to work?

My/etc/X11/xorg.conf  looks like this.

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier      "Configured Mouse"
        Driver          "mouse"
        Option          "CorePointer"
        Option          "Device"                "/dev/input/mice"
        Option          "Protocol"              "ExplorerPS/2"
        Option          "Buttons"               "9"
        Option          "ZAxisMapping"          "4 5 8 9"
EndSection

Have you looked into /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Host: 61.172.30.214
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:40:27 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <ac2835dc-3dd0-49c2-a721-77c616bd1138@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:40:27 -0800 (PST)
From: jockey.kyd@gmail.com
Subject: So weird... The mouse scroll wheel doesn't work with Xorg...

Hi, all.

I recently installed Solaris 10 on my x86 box. The only issue as I know
for the time being is that the mouse scroll wheel doesn't work with
Xorg. Hmmm... Okay, it did work, and sometimes stopped, and again
recovered. This pattern continued until about 6 hours ago. Now it stays
at the wrong state, unfortunately.

My mouse is an ordinary PS/2 one with two buttons and a scroll wheel.
I want to promise that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it per se.
Here is some info:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ uname -a
SunOS arbit 5.10 Generic_127112-07 i86pc i386 i86pc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

$ grep -i mouse /var/log/Xorg.0.log
(**) |-->Input Device "Mouse0"
(II) LoadModule: "mouse"
(II) Loading /usr/X11/lib/modules/input//mouse_drv.so
(II) Module mouse: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
(==) NVIDIA(0): Silken mouse disabled
(II) Mouse0: Setting Device option to "/dev/mouse"
(**) Mouse0: Protocol: VUID
(**) Mouse0: Core Pointer
(**) Option "Device" "/dev/mouse"
(II) Mouse0: Setting Buttons option to "3"
(==) Mouse0: Emulate3Buttons, Emulate3Timeout: 50
(**) Mouse0: ZAxisMapping: buttons 4 and 5
(**) Mouse0: Buttons: 9
(II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Mouse0" (type: MOUSE)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# The section about mouse in /etc/X11/xorg.conf follows:

Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier  "Mouse0"
        Driver      "mouse"
        Option      "Protocol" "auto"
        Option      "Device" "/dev/mouse"
        Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for any solution or constructive suggestion. :-)

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
References: <ac2835dc-3dd0-49c2-a721-77c616bd1138@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID: <13puk3d8t6n5ube@news.supernews.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 16:12:29 -0000
From: Dave Uhring <daveuhring@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: So weird... The mouse scroll wheel doesn't work with Xorg...

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:40:27 -0800, jockey.kyd wrote:

> (II) Loading /usr/X11/lib/modules/input//mouse_drv.so (II) Module mouse:
> vendor="X.Org Foundation" (==) NVIDIA(0): Silken mouse disabled (II)
> Mouse0: Setting Device option to "/dev/mouse" (**) Mouse0: Protocol:
> VUID


Incorrect protocol detected.  Should be:


(II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Mouse0" (type: MOUSE)
(--) Mouse0: PnP-detected protocol: "ExplorerPS/2"


> Section "InputDevice"
>         Identifier  "Mouse0"
>         Driver      "mouse"
>         Option      "Protocol" "auto"   <========
>         Option      "Device" "/dev/mouse"
>         Option      "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
> EndSection

Edit your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file accordingly.


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:04:36 UTC
References: <he468g$iiu$1@aioe.org> <UwPQm.72152$W77.67433@newsfe11.iad>
    <hf14an$ot$1@aioe.org>
Message-ID: <88Q9n.21848$p66.16994@newsfe09.iad>
Organization: Timetravellers Anonymous
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 07:04:36 GMT
From: Richard L. Hamilton <rlhamil@smart.net>

In article <hf14an$ot$1@aioe.org>,
        "Colin B." <cbigam@somewhereelse.shaw.ca> writes:
> Richard L. Hamilton <rlhamil@smart.net> wrote:
>>
>> In article <he468g$iiu$1@aioe.org>,
>>        "Colin B." <cbigam@somewhereelse.shaw.ca> writes:
>>>
>>> Bit of a shot in the dark here, but is anyone using a fancy new mouse
>>> (in my case, the Logitech MX620) with Solaris 10 (Sparc), and getting
>>> the various accessory buttons to work? I'd love to get the side buttons
>>> (forward and backward) functioning, if possible.
>>
>>
>> AFAIK, Solaris 10 can usually handle 3 buttons plus (in many cases)
>> vertical scroll, where up and down steps map to clicks of
>> fictitious buttons 4 and 5 (which is how other implementations handle
>> this also).  I think that horizontal scroll functionality first appeared
>> in a patch to either Solaris 8 or Solaris 9; my Sun Blade 100 still has
>> Solaris 9, and the scroll wheel on the Logitech TrackMan attached to it
>> works just fine.  New Sun mice have a vertical scroll wheel that doubles
>> as the middle button, like most mice do nowadays.  (OTOH, I've seen systems
>> running Solaris 8 where a scroll wheel didn't work.)
>>
>>
>> Core X pointer devices can only _fully_ support 5 buttons.  However, they
>> can support _some_ actions on additional buttons, enough that I think
>> it's common enough to map horizontal scroll steps to clicks of buttons
>> 6 and 7.
>>
>> Still, because of the core X pointer device limitations (changing them
>> would be a no-no because it would break either binary compatibility or
>> over-the-wire compatibility for remote display, or both), most programs
>> won't be able to do anything with more than five buttons (or given that the
>> UI toolkit in use supports it, 3 buttons, vertical, and even horizontal
>> scroll, as previously described).
>>
>> I'd have to dig a bit to get it right as to which way around up/down vs
>> 4/5 (or left/right vs 6/7) go, or _exactly_ why core X pointer devices
>> couldn't be redefined to handle something with a lot more functionality.
>> But I'm sure I'm close enough that you get the general idea.
>>
>> There have been drivers for fancier devices, like the buttonbox/dialbox
>> combination (8 dials on the dialbox, and I think 16 buttons on the
>> buttonbox, with individual lights on each button yet).  Or 3-D space mice.
>> But those are treated as X extension devices, which very few apps, let
>> alone UI toolkits, know anything at all about.  Normally, a single device
>> cannot be both a core X device and an extension device at the same time,
>> but some get around that by pretending to be two devices, so that all
>> programs can use the basic functionality, and those that understand about
>> extension devices can look for and use them instead.  So there's just enough
>> infrastructure in X11 that greater functionality is not totally impossible.
>> But to have apps & desktops that actually used more than core functionality
>> would mean getting those smarts into widely used toolkits (like GNOME's
>> GTK or KDE's Qt). I have no idea at all what if anything is happening there,
>> but I think that's where one would have to look for widespread support of
>> extended input device functionality under X11.
>>
>> I think the situation on Solaris is about on par with where it is on Linux
>> regarding common pointer devices (give or take that I think the Synaptics
>> touchpad driver just got added to OpenSolaris, which presumably means it's
>> _not_ in Solaris 10 AFAIK).  Add-ons like tablets are of course going to
>> be harder to find drivers for (although I think I saw one once).
>>
>> But I think it's safe to say that if you can't get all your mouse's buttons
>> and features to work under X11 on Linux, you probably won't ever see them
>> working under X11 on Solaris, either, because the limitation is ultimately
>> not the OS, but X11.
>
>
> Wow, that was...comprehensive. Thank you Richard!
>
> The mouse in question is a new Logitech with, as near as I can count
> (because Logitech's documentation is unexpectedly crappy) eight buttons
> plus the scroll wheel. The two main buttons, scroll wheel, and scroll wheel
> button all work, so that would be the five you mention. That leaves five
> buttons that aren't working. Pity.
>
> Colin


BTW, I think there's a potential for things getting better, _eventually_.
I saw something about (I think)I a revision to X11 input extensions.
Until that, a device could at any given time be a core X device (with the
limitations that had), or an extension device (which could handle something
like 32 buttons and 8 axes of motion, if memory serves).  But it couldn't be
both at once.  I think the new revision will allow a device to be both at
once, so that older programs that didn't know about extension devices could
use the more limited capabilities, and newer ones could use a greater range
of capabilities.

I wouldn't expect to see that for awhile though; even once that revision is
incorporated, it wouldn't be useful to most people until toolkits and
programs were revised to take advantage of it.

But as long as the present situation holds (who knows what Oracle may do in
terms of Solaris on the desktop?), I wouldn't expect Solaris to fall too
far behind Linux (or rather, X11 on Linux or other platforms) anyway,
whatever comfort that might be.

My personal suspicion is that it might not be ten-button mice that move things
along, but more interesting devices like affordable 3D mice, datagloves,
full-body-motion trackers, etc.

 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:52:18 -0600
References: <he468g$iiu$1@aioe.org> <UwPQm.72152$W77.67433@newsfe11.iad>
    <hf14an$ot$1@aioe.org> <88Q9n.21848$p66.16994@newsfe09.iad>
Message-ID: <m3tytzgemm.fsf@myrkraverk.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 03:52:17 +0000
From: Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.com>
Subject: Re: Anyone using 'extra' mouse buttons?

rlhamil@smart.net (Richard L. Hamilton) writes:
\
> In article <hf14an$ot$1@aioe.org>,
>       "Colin B." <cbigam@somewhereelse.shaw.ca> writes:
>> Richard L. Hamilton <rlhamil@smart.net> wrote:
>>> In article <he468g$iiu$1@aioe.org>,
>>>        "Colin B." <cbigam@somewhereelse.shaw.ca> writes:
>>>> Bit of a shot in the dark here, but is anyone using a fancy new
>>>> mouse (in my case, the Logitech MX620) with Solaris 10 (Sparc),
>>>> and getting the various accessory buttons to work? I'd love to
>>>> get the side buttons (forward and backward) functioning, if
>>>> possible.


I'll add that I have a logitech mouse with a single side button which
works.  I use it in my emacs to page down, and it wors "out of the
box" as autorun in WoW (through Wine).  I'm using build 115 of
OpenSolaris.

I have, as of yet, not found other uses for it.


 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:04:45 UTC
References: <he468g$iiu$1@aioe.org> <UwPQm.72152$W77.67433@newsfe11.iad>
    <hf14an$ot$1@aioe.org> <88Q9n.21848$p66.16994@newsfe09.iad>
    <hkvk80$qd3$2@reader2.panix.com>
Message-ID: <N0Pdn.8391$YR1.1268@newsfe17.iad>
Organization: Timetravellers Anonymous
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:04:45 GMT
From: Richard L. Hamilton <rlhamil@smart.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone using 'extra' mouse buttons?


In article <hkvk80$qd3$2@reader2.panix.com>,
        dkcombs@panix.com (David Combs) writes:
[...]
>
> Right now I'm using Windows XP with a Microsoft mouse that,
> on top, has a LEFT, a wheel, and a RIGHT, and one more on
> each side (on each vertical wall of the mouse).
>
> Those final two work for going fwd and backward in eg firefox.
>
>
>
> I[f] stupid MS can have these things working ok, why the H. can't
> sun!  Maybe we should complain to that guy who runs Oracle?
> [...]


Windows can "support" every gadget imaginable because (a) the cost is
spread out over a _lot_ of units being sold, and (b) that means that
in many cases, the hardware vendors rather than Microsoft pay for the
driver support.  (The quotation marks are because sometimes the
quality of that support is crap; you take some 3rd party hardware
vendor writing their own drivers by outsourcing the programming to
someplace where they barely speak English, and you get something
people end up complaining about; it works sometimes, and sucks the
rest of the time.)

Solaris doesn't have those advantages of scale.  Further, as long as
it (and Linux, and just about every other Unix-like OS except Macs)
uses X11 as its primary graphical interface, it's subject to the
architectural limitations of X11.  Eventually it will become less
limited, or rather, it will become so that accessing above-average
features of an input device isn't such a burden on the application
programmer.  But it isn't there yet, and I don't expect that Linux is
either.

Even on a Mac, I'd probably have a rough time finding support for a
5-button-plus-scroll-wheel mouse.  Heck, Macs have their incredible
"Magic" Mouse (where the entire top of the mouse is essentially a
touchpad).  But even though Apple invented that mouse _and_ owns the
OS, it was up to 3rd-party folks to figure out how to get gestures,
beyond just horizontal and vertical scrolling, out of it.  In that
case, it wasn't so much an architectural limitation as that Apple
(apparently) hadn't thought through and done something with the full
capabilities of the device before putting it on the market.  And for
Apple, desktops are what they do, whereas for Sun/Oracle, desktops
have fallen to a distant 2nd place in favor of servers (although some
Solaris users would say that even then, desktops have gotten too much
attention at the expense of servers...but now that I think about it,
even Apple probably does as much or more with iPhones and iPods and
the iTunes/Apps stores as with desktops...maybe desktops are on the
decline, period).

Similarly, if someone really wanted to, I bet that once Xi2 is
available, and even before toolkit (Gtk+ or whatever) support is
available to make above-average input device functionality readily
available to applciation programmers, with X11, one could create
drivers that could read all the different buttons, and a separate
program that would "grab" all functionality beyond the basics and
allow it to be mapped to known sorts of events, like accelerator keys.
That would allow the overall desktop environment (although not any
particular program in detail) to benefit from the extra functionality
of the device.

I would not however expect Sun (Oracle), or even RedHat to pay for
most of that though; and for sure, the makers of the fancy input
device wouldn't bother, since they make 99% of their money from
Windows users.  I'd expect that most of the initial work would be done
by individuals, just because they want it to happen and think they
know enough to get it done sooner themselves.

You could be one of those individuals.  Or you could offer a
bounty to someone to do the work.  Maybe you're hoping that if
you're annoying enough, someone will do it just to get you to
_shut_up_.  Tempting, but I'm sorry to say it takes less time
(and is about as much fun) to tell you where to get off than it
would take to implement a solution to your problem, which is so
not _my_ problem because I don't work for Sun/Oracle, and I don't
own a five button mouse...


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////